Caught in the Crossfire

Emmanuel has produced tracks for some of the biggest names in music both Stateside and in the good old UK. But after all these years working behind big names, he’s finally had the chance to release his own album, which features some monumental guest spots and delivers with an outside range of sounds. Abjekt caught up with Emmanuel to quiz him on all things musical:

Can you introduce yourself to the readers of Crossfire briefly, for those that don’t know you too well?

Greetings. My name is Colin Emmanuel aka C.Swing. I am a producer, songwriter, remixer, arranger and musician.

I read that you’ve been producing for 10 years come this November, what were you doing before you got into the music making business?

Originally I was on the road to becoming a professional footballer or at least that was the dream, but I was unfortunately run over a week before my trials for Spurs and lost half of my right foot. That’s when the music thing came to the forefront, but before I went full time I went to Leicester Polytechnic and studied IT. I was also attending the School Of Audio Engineering at weekends and studying Sound Engineering before going on to do a Tonmiester in Production. Had a few jobs here and there, worked on the Credit Card Sales line for Wembley Stadium and was in Pre Sales Technical Support for a computer company before I went full time into music. Exciting stuff eh!!

What made you leave the 9-5 to get into producing?

Well, I’d never really planned to get a nine to five, I was always determined to make it in music. But it’s a struggle and bills have to be paid. I was working with Definition of Sound and we simply ran out of money. They were on the verge of signing a new deal but everything was in limbo, so the only solution was to get a temporary job until their deal came through. Then I could leave and work on the album and and get paid for all the work I’d done etc. So I ended up temping for this computer company as a Sales Operator and was doing the music thing in my spare time. About 3 years later, Definition had their deal and chose to do the album with someone else, and I was now fulltime in the company and had been promoted to Pre Sales Technical Support (Big Ol’ Title).

It just felt like I was dying in there. I got to the stage where I just couldn’t handle going in and I decided that if I didn’t make an effort to leave and go for it I never would. Then a girl who worked in the same company lost her Brother who was quite young after a car accident. And that just triggered me to write my notice and go for it. Life’s to short for regrets, so I quit my nine to five around March of 1996 and signed my publishing deal in November 1996.

Was there any particular record or records that really took you over and made you think that making music was the thing you had to do? My dad is a huge music fan and has a massive library load of vinyl, was this the same with you?

My Dad’s record collection plays a huge part in my musical make up I had one of those Dad’s where as you hit the end of your road on the way home from school on Friday you could hear what he’d bought blaring down the road, and you knew you’d hear it until the following Friday. Earth, Wind & Fire, Marvin Gaye, Bob Marley, Queen, Bob James, Burning Spear. Always something different. And he’s still on point now, he’ll tell you about Timbaland being involved with Jodeci. He knows his stuff.

But apart from that, it’s always a moment when you discover something for yourself. So for me it would be the first Mantronix album. The drum programming blew me away, and really got me interested in music technically as well as musically. After that I’d have to say Guy’s first album. It mixed hip hop, R&B and gospel so well that it helped me make sense of what I wanted to do.

I guess there are a few tunes like that, that just make you wanna get in the studio, Jodeci’s Diary Of A Mad Band, D’Angelo’s Brown Sugar, the SOS Band with Just Be Good to Me and a lot of Loose Ends etc.

You’ve worked with big names in the past, Mary J Blige, En Vogue and smaller UK artists such as Yungun, Braintax and Doc Brown – Do you hand pick who you want to work with first? Or do you get these offered to you?

It’s a bit of both really. Thing’s like Mary J and En Vogue you usually find that there are a couple of people in the running and if your lucky enough it’ll be offered to you. I’m lucky in that because I’ve received more critical praise than commercial success I get a lot enquiries usually via management. But it’s also nice to be in a situation where you can approach a Mystro or Rodney P and ask to work with them I’m usually terrified they’ll say no so I don’t ask that often.

But ultimately whether it’s been offered or I approach the decision lies with me. I’d rather work with someone I want to work with then work with them just for the money or quedos.

You’ve always worked with The Beta Band, which isn’t the first group I’d associate with your production work – Do you think its important to be able to vary your sound in your work? Does working on albums like this in between straight hip hop albums keep you on your toes and allow you to evolve your production style?

I always tell people that I only have 12 notes to play with. And those are the same twelve notes you’ll find on a rock track, or a country track or a jazz track. Every musician has those 12 notes to work with, so I do see why I should them in just area, or be intimidated by using them in other areas.

It’s important for me to do stuff like that because I’m trying to be a “Producer” period!! Not an R&B producer or Hip Hop Producer, just a Producer. I want to be in the running to work with U2, Nora Jones, Braintax and score films but that’s just me.

Aside from that, I can twist a production in any direction because I can pull from the different areas I’ve worked in.

It does keep you on your toes, keeps you humble, and where the Beta Band are concerned it can remind you of how you used to work, how to break the rules etc. I loved doing that. I’d love to do more stuff like that.

When you start working with an artist, do you already have a particular style or beat in mind for their track, or do you work with the artist and make it a mutual thing that comes about only after you’ve met them to get the right sound?

Getting the artist’s personality on to the track is my one golden rule. So when first working I may have a few ideas in my head, but I’ll let them guide the first few sessions and together we’ll find their sound. Once I’ve made that connection and got it right , I’m able to work on idea’s without the artist being there sometimes as I’ve got their profile in my head, so I can tailor make tracks for them.

So tell us about your new album, D’illusions Of Grandeur. When is it out, who is on it, and do you have any favourite tracks on the album?

D’illusions of Grandeur is my debut solo album. I’d got to a stage where I was seriously thinking about calling it a day. Various friends and colleagues convinced me that if I was gonna call it a day then the least I do is put out some of my own material which represented me, and not what I do day to day as a producer for other artists and labels etc. Often you work on a project for a label and a piece of work gets turned down for whatever reason. You start to know what’s worth handing in and what you might as well keep for yourself. Terri Walker’s Flirtin was rejected by Def Jam for her 2nd album when she was with them. Even though Nate James’s Pretend was done for the album, the initial reaction from his camp was that it was too underground and specialist to do anything, so I could do what I wanted with it. So when I sat down and went through some of the material that was turned down for whatever reason or deemed too underground, I realised I had the bulk of the album.

In saying that, I still set about trying to give the album an overall sound that was not Jamelia, or Beta Band or Beverly Knight etc. I wanted to come from an angle that no one was expecting of me and to avoid it being a typical Producers album. So it was more about getting the right songs with the right artists as opposed to getting big feature after big feature.

I wanted to use people that I felt were often overlooked or not being given the recognition they deserve. Most of the people on the album I’ve known for between 5 to 10 years, so it was like a family vibe working it.

So we have appearance’s on the album from Steve Mason (ex Beta Band, King Biscuit Time), KRS1, Nate James, Belle, Celetia Martin (Ladies In Question), Daniel DeBourg, Dyanna Fearon, Michelle Escoffery, Mystro, Braintax, Rodney P, Terri Walker, Sammi Jay and Michelle Escoffery . Not to mention musical contributions from James and Jason Yarde, Chris Jerome and Eric Appapoulay.

It’s definitely more a “black” album rather than “urban”, I suppose I’m trying to pay tribute to the music that influenced me.

How did the hook up with KRS-One come about? Had you always been a fan of his? I’d imagine it must have been pretty special to work with a legend like him.

That hook up was down to my friend Dave Veejay who was working for Kiss FM at the time (he’s now on Choice FM). He calls me up one day and asks if I’d fancy doing a track with KRS1. I was like yeah, whatever, this is a joke right? But he explain KRS was coming over to give some talks and wanted to get in the studio while he was here. So I gave him 2 beats on a cassette as he asked and Dave took it round to his hotel. I’d forgotten about it, convinced it was a wind up until Dave called back saying book a studio for the weekend, he’ll do it on Saturday night. This is all way back in 1997, originally it was on a different backing track, but I updated it for the album. That’s what went down.

I’m a huge fan of KRS so it was an incredible moment. I mean this guy is part of my musical make up. I’ve spent time in my room trying to program BDP teams. My Philosophy is one of my all time favourite tunes, but the guy has so many classics. It changed my life working with the guy. I mean once you work with someone of that stature, and they call out your name for the chorus, and then hang in the studio for hours after just talking but stuff in general; I’ve never had a need to fear anyone I’m working with since then.

Myself, Sandra Escoffery, Dave Veejay, James Yarde and KRS1 sitting in a studio just chatting. That’s a memory I will hold forever.

What are your links with Lowlife Records? You worked on Braintax’s Biro Funk and you’ve got Brains and Mystro up on the album, are you close to those guys?

I ghost write all of the raps for Brains, Mystro, Jehst etc. I’m just too shy to be a rapper!! JOKE!! No, I’ve worked in the same building as Low Life for years, and when we had to move business they found me a space across the hall from them. So bottom line is that there like family. We have a laugh, argue, help out on each others tracks, all that kind of stuff really. I do a lot of radio edits and mastering for them.

I’ve known Brains for years and he is a really good friend. I’ve got nothing but love and respect for the guy, he has a brutal honesty that keeps you in check and he’s one of the people who convinced me to do an album. I owe the guy a lot.

Mystro, well that’s my Brotha from anotha Mutha. Simple as that. I met him through Brains. Love working with the guy, I think he’s one of the best MC’s in the UK period. Most sessions are usually just jokes.

So yes, we’re all close, but that’s the whole reason why the album has the features it does, it’s all about my musical family.

Linked to this, do you think that its important for you to keep working within the UK scene, considering the big US names you’ve worked with? Is the scene stronger now than ever before?

It’s a flattering question, but I don’t think it makes a blind bit of difference to the UK whether I stay working here or not. I know that if I spend the rest of my life working here I’ll die with nothing, so at some point I’m going to have to make a step to another territory, not necessarily the States (I think people tend to overplay the importance of the States in the overall scheme of things).

I work in the UK because there are people in the UK I want to work with and people who want to work with me. It’s certainly not the industry that keeps me here because I hate to burst a bubble, but we don’t have one… Well not one worth shouting about at the moment anyway.

Creatively, this country has always been strong, and the advances made in multimedia with the internet etc has seen us develop better platforms to be heard and seen from.

The scene is quite strong at the moment but I don’t know if it’s at it’s strongest. The next stage in my mind for the UK is who wants to address the UK. What I mean by that is that we’re now just starting to grasp what the rock and indie bands do which is to work on generating fan bases outside of their area. That’s how you add value to your product, when you have customers for it across the country and in different territories. And once you can make money without a major, a major will want a piece of that.

Is there anyone you’d like to work with in the future?

Stateside I’d love to work with Dwele, Jill Scott, NAS, Joe Budden, The Foo Fighters and De La Soul amongst others.

In the UK I’d love to link with Ty, Baby Blue, Fundamental, Mews, Lemar, Kylie and a few others. UK wise I can pretty much get to who I’m interested in. But ultimately I’d love to hook up with a film director because I’d really love to score a film.

What are the plans for C-Swing in 2006?

Well it’s looking like quite a busy year ahead. I’ve already remixed Beverley Knight’s single Another Piece Of My Heart and made an appearance in the video for it, and I’ve also just finished remixing Terri Walker’s first single from her album I Am which should be out at some point this year.

On the schedule at the moment are tracks for albums coming from Mystro, Michelle Escoffery, Belle, Satomi, Doc Brown and Rodney P. I’m doing a complete album for Braintax and producing most of the Ladies in Question album which is Celetia Martin’s group. I’ll also be doing some side projects with Steve Mason (ex Beta Band now King Biscuit Time).

But you can also expect a few more tracks from Emmanuel, a new EP later in the year called BLACK EINSTEIN and work should begin on album two before the end of the year.

And finally, do you have any message for the Crossfire readers?

I’d like to say thanks for all your support. I hope you enjoy the album (if you haven’t got a copy why not?). If you like it my name is Colin Emmanuel and if you don’t then I’m Robbie Williams. Peace.

Peace to you, I really enjoyed the album, it’s top notch.

Emmanuel’s D’Illusions Of Grandeur is out now, through Little League Productions.

Born in a military hospital in his native South America, Immortal Technique came over to the States to live in New York.

There, he got into hip hop and after a stint in prison, Tech came out intent on bringing his politically charged anti-Government message to the masses. After 2 albums on Viper Records, Tech is back in 2006 with “The Middle Passage” and, as ever, had a lot to say when he spoke to Abjekt.

What’s the news on The Middle Passage? Can we be expecting it to drop in 2006?

You can expect it to drop when I release it, I’m working as hard as I can on that album and a movie, executive producing, making beats and another mixtape to follow the album.

I read in another interview you said you were going to deal with your problems with major labels, is this still the case?

Deal with my problems? Like machine gun them niggaz. Not right now. But eventually I have to go back to the table they just better talk right this time or I’ll leave and make more money without them. I sold about 80,000 units of Revolutionary Vol.2. I have no ego about myself, that’s the only reason they give a fuck about me. They don’t care for my music or for anything else, I mean look at the “talent” they sign, they just want something they know will sell.

You’re the Executive VP on Viper Records, which released your first two albums. Are you completely involved in the releasing of your music from the very start to the very end in this capacity?

I’m actually the president now. And yeah, I run the show.

You’re now associated with Babygrande records, home to the likes of the GZA. How did that come about and why did you join up with them?

I have a distribution deal through babygrande for one project. I ain’t signed to no one. I’m still independent and take orders from one person. Me.

When you came over to London and rocked the Islington Academy, you had cats spilling from the doors it was so packed. That must have been a great sight for you, to see you get that much support?

It just goes to show you that the love of hardcore street hiphop that talks about real shit is still there. If you talk about the hood, and rep for the hood, and really talk about the issue that we face in the ghetto people relate to that. Whether it’s a ghetto here in America or in London, or Paris, or Nigeria, Jamaica, Colombia the colonization is the same basic set up. The brutality and the extent of poverty is different especially in the 3rd world but the principles are a set standard of mind control. Even if people are not from the hood they feel it.

They know that the skewed view of the world they are being presented with by corporate controlled media is bullshit. I look forward to returning to London for an even bigger show. Something to showcase new material, sell some new shirts I’m about to make and show the UK I have not and will never forget about them. I just ask they be patient with the new album, I am not into rushing music and cheating the supporters out of a quality product.

Do you have any plans on returning to these shores?

I’ll be back in the summer. (2006)

What got you into being proactive against how the world is run? Was it music? Or works written by anyone in particular?

I was just tired of seeing niggaz talk about streets but talk around the streets and not in the streets and not be there with the people. I reinvest I own land I support the people and I make moves wherever I am. I can remember listening to this weekly radio station while I was locked up and they would play just underground shit. I thought that I had the ability to do better. So I used to write rhymes and more rhymes, shit I aint done since I was a little kid. I found a way to express thoughts and frustrations about my situation and shit my people were going through in that. I guess it takes you being a slave to understand what freedom really is.

Obviously hip hop is a vessel for giving everyone and anyone a voice, how powerful do you think it can be against the power bloc?

It’ll be as powerful as we are willing to sacrifice to make it.

Do you think it’s a shame that you get these rappers on MTV boasting about how they’ve been shot, or how much jewellery they have, when the people who are struggling and need a voice, don’t have as much exposure as these bling-era rappers?

I don’t give a fuck what other niggaz do, I’m not eating with them so really I don’t focus on it too much. I’m not here to knock anyone’s hustle, not everyone gives a fuck about the culture they are just trying to feed their family. As long as they just stay the fuck outta my way, we cool.

Do you aim your tracks at any group of people in particular as a fanbase? Or are you just putting your message out there and want anyone to grab hold of it?

I make music for whoever listens to it.

You have a new single out, Bin Laden, with Mos Def, with Chuck D and KRS-1 on the remix, can you tell us a bit about the track? And did you particularly want the likes of Chuck and KRS on a track with you because of their political background in hip hop?

They have been long time supporters of the music I made they both heard the album I had “Revolutionary Vol.2” and when KRS reached out to me about doing some shows I was there. When I reached out to him about the hook he was right there. Chuck D is someone who supported me before he ever knew me so I respect them both very much and I’m glad to be able to work with them. Same thing with MosDef we run in very different circles, he’ getting that Hollywood money but he did this joint with Green Lantern and Green Lantern put me on it for the verses. When he heard it he showed it love, I appreciate any support I get from people that are veterans in this game. Niggaz like me need that. Really Bin Laden and the Remix were more of a buzz single to keep people at bay until more exclusive material is ready and the official lead single for ‘The Middle Passage’ is ready. But it’s a song that I am very glad I made and that I put out there.

Are there any artists you are into particularly at the moment?

I just finished executive producing an album by this artist from NYC called “AKIR” his album is title is Legacy and that shit is crazy. It’s his creative vision but I helped him with it. It talks about the self righteous aspect of Revolutionaries, how they fuck themselves over with that racist shit against whites, against other blacks, against themselves, brown and Asian. It talks about the street hustle of making it on your own. We came up in very similar ways but I came straight out of jail into battling while Akir was more of a producer and a hustler before he realized he had a talent for this.

How disappointed were you that Bush got back in for a second term? A first time is bad enough, but surely you’d think people would have learnt the lesson after his first term?

I knew he would win again because nobody ever went broke underestimating the ignorance of the American public. And since America is the bastard child of the British Empire its destiny lies in overextension and internal chaos as did Britain’s. But believe me the empire will find a new form just as the Romans did when their empire collapses, they could not conquer with the sword so they hid their paganism and their ideology of world domination inside the voice of a man that they themselves crucified. Much like America claims to honor Martin Luther King Jr. and his message but it was America who killed him.

It was Dick Cheney, the Vice President and Trent Lott, Former Majority leader of the Senate, who were some of the few people who voted against making his birthday a national holiday. After Bush there will be another conservative fuck who gets elected, people are willing to accept slavery to feel even a little bit more secure about their money especially since it’s painfully obvious that America is fighting a losing industrial war with China and India. Shit is real out here and when America goes hungry the streets starve first. So I’m making moves.

Finally, do you have any messages to the readers of Caught In The Crossfire?

Try having an original idea. Don’t believe the right or the left, (labor or conservative) they both want your money, don’t even believe me. Read all sides of things and make up your own mind it is the only way to confront an issue.

Thanks for your time, peace to you and keep on fighting!

Much Respect for having me here. Peace.
Immortal Technique

Check out all of Tech’s info on www.viperrecords.com.